It's a synthetic Friday... so pondering things

"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012) 04/09/2020 at 11:23 • Filed to: None

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Let’s say vaccine is due next year... which means we might not re-open this year at all.

Kids getting their education via Zoom etc... but should the kids be learning adjectives and quadratic formulas or hunting and farming skills instead?

If society falls apart and we go back to stone age (I know it’s a long shot, but still a shot), should we not prepare accordingly? Order some shovels from Amazon and get some tractors off ebay? 

TheRealBicycleBuck > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 11:31

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Seriously. I’ve taught both of my kids how to use a shovel and drive a tractor as well as shoot both a pistol and a shotgun. If we had to leave, I’d grab a plane, load up the family, and head north to my buddy’s place. He has 90 acres to live on and a rural  airport less than a mile from his house. He used to farm the place, so he has all the equipment as long as we can source some diesel to run it. If not, we’ll have to get some horses.

For Sweden > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 11:32

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Teach them farming skills? Schools can’t afford to give every classroom over a million yankee clams of tractors and combines!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > TheRealBicycleBuck 04/09/2020 at 11:36

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Make your own bio diesel using an old water heater!

jimz > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 11:38

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No.

PartyPooper2012 > TheRealBicycleBuck 04/09/2020 at 11:41

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Those are very useful skills to have, but I fear just knowing how to squeeze a trigger or how to press down on a pedal of a tractor isn’t going to be enough to survive. One needs to know what it takes to grow a plant that will feed you. Or how to not spook an animal while hunting it.

Obviously I am leaving out libraries worth of information. I am just saying I think kids need these skills at least equally as knowing how to figure out a probability of winning in poker. 

DipodomysDeserti > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 11:44

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This is something you should always be teaching your kids outside of school, but I get what you’re saying.

I teach STEM, and switched to teaching them how to design structures that can be sustainable in the desert. Built in a bunch of ecology about our local plants and what can be used for what. Our midwife already took off and is living on a family commune with water, goats, chicken, veggies...

I have very little hope there will be a vaccine ready to go in a year. And TBH I’d be very leery to inject something into my kids that got to skip most of our safety checks and testing, especially with the current yahoos at the helm. Hopefully we find out that already developed drugs can treat it.

My bird IS the word > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 11:47

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Everyone is going like this is going to clear up in june, but I have no idea why.

Might want to order ammo now, everything is severely backordered.

PartyPooper2012 > My bird IS the word 04/09/2020 at 11:51

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Unless there is a vaccine....and enough of it to go around for every one in the world, then no. I don’t think it will clear up by May or June... or December.

Curve might flatten and we might get a false sense of relief and then bam. More infections and more curves. 

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > My bird IS the word 04/09/2020 at 11:57

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I mean, the IHME projections show MN (my state) having no new ca ses by June 1. It seems optimistic to me, but I’m not the research firm being funneled millions of dollars to get this thing figured out......

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/minnesota

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 11:58

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Likely, but if the demands from virus spread don’t overwhelm the hospitals, then is it worth keeping everyt hing on lockdown?

Genuine question. I have no idea the answer.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > For Sweden 04/09/2020 at 11:59

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classic #righttorepair

fintail > My bird IS the word 04/09/2020 at 12:00

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But this is no worse than a common flu, we’ll be getting online again around Easter.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 12:12

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Th at seems a little backwards.... Wouldn’t you want them learning how to design and make machines to do the farming and avoid spreading further contamination? Besides, the book learning aspect of farming is easy enough , i t ‘s the labor hours and practical experience that takes generations to build up a solid foundation of.

I do think plumbing and electrical wiring should be taught though. Can’t do much of anything without clean water, and solar panels will let us continue to use machines. If you lack that knowledge but want to try to live on your own without some network or society, then you’re pretty much SOL in the long run. An d then when things go back to “normal”, you can take that knowledge into many other career paths. Fl uids need to be transfered somehow and everything is electric so if you can understand how to wire a circuit board well, you’ve got a leg up on everyone else in the modern world.

PartyPooper2012 > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 04/09/2020 at 12:14

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Yeah. It’s an interesting question for sure.

Say hospitals are able to take in patients and we re-open. how long till more infections cause all hospitals to get overwhelmed?

By that logic then, do we keep locked down till there is a vaccine and vaccinated people can go back to regularly scheduled programming?

What do we do about those anti-vaccine people? Those that absolutely refuse any kinds of vaccines?

There are also the conspiracy theorists who say with vaccine, people might be injected with some gov’t tracking shit and will absolutely not allow for vaccines.

Also, just because a hospital has room for more patients, doesn’t mean staff is in any shape to deal with stress that comes with this workload.

Many of my friends are in health industry and everyone - doctors, nurses, techs, admins all are overwhelmed by this shit.

PartyPooper2012 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/09/2020 at 12:20

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I am just looking at it from an immediate necessity point of view - people need to eat 3 meals a day.

Pumping lake dry might have to wait a month or two.

Of course, you are right. People do need technical skills. plumbing, electrical etc. But if the factories are shut and there is no ore being produced and there is no pipes or wired being made... those skills are sorta useless for the immediate necessity time horizon. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 12:33

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You’re right. We’ve always had a small garden, so the kids have learned how to grow some food. Staple grains like wheat would be more of a challenge for us, but many of the country kids know how to grow it. My buddy grew wheat, sorghum, and soybeans on his farm before diesel prices spiked and he quit  farming. I’ve never taken my kids hunting, but both have had hunter’s education courses and both learned how to fish. The years we spent in Scouts was a big benefit.

There’s a big advantage to growing up country when the world falls apart. I haven’t given my kids a full dose of it, but they are aware of the basics. I think our little family will do fine if we can get away from the urban areas. That should be easy to do since we live on the edge of the countryside.

I feel for the people who grew up in the city and have no experience in the woods. Those folks are goners.

My bird IS the word > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 12:43

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Vaccine has to go through nine months of fda trials i believe, unless they rush it...

My bird IS the word > fintail 04/09/2020 at 12:45

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Early on that's what it was looking like, but it looks like china underreported the fatalities. I initially thought it sounded like they were overreporting them due to statistical bias. Think its gonna flare again as soon as they let off quarantine

My bird IS the word > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 04/09/2020 at 12:47

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Feel like its gonna flare back up as soon as quarantine is over. Maybe 2 months?

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > My bird IS the word 04/09/2020 at 12:48

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Certainly could.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 12:50

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Plants take time to grow, and land takes time to prepare en masse. Th e tools that do those jobs still need to be made by someone/something so if you can’t make some pipe, chance are you can’t make hoes and shovels either. PLus you still need irrigation to make most fields viable for crops so if you don’t have pipes, you don’t have a farm. If you don’t have electricity or some form of stored energy, then you need manpower to make up the difference. A lot of people in one place means the virus spreads.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 12:50

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All fair points. For me hospitals being able to handle the numbers sort of implies that the staff is also at a point where they’re also not overwhelmed.

The anti-vax people can get fucked.

fintail > My bird IS the word 04/09/2020 at 12:52

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I pity the fool who believes anything out of the PRC. Sadly, being a fool seems to be in fashion lately.

I have a sick (uncredentialed, too) suspicion that flare ups are going to be a part of life in many places until there’s a real vaccine.

Jim Spanfeller > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2020 at 13:15

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Welding, too. Gotta be able to put spikes on your car somehow!

My bird IS the word > fintail 04/09/2020 at 13:29

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Just another reminder that you can’t believe anything until you see it. You would think the communists would be more likely to supress peoples freedoms to protect public health, not less so they look good. Funny how that works.

It's almost like it's a flawed concept based on a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature... Or something

fintail > My bird IS the word 04/09/2020 at 14:36

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PRC is as communist as my left nut. It’s a totalitarian kleptocracy waving a red flag.

Of course, we have plenty on these shores wanting to throw caution to the wind to “get back to business” or some such nonsense as well, so while we may be better, maybe not by much.

My bird IS the word > fintail 04/09/2020 at 14:45

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Nobody is actually communist because true communism is contingent on a lack of greed and evil. Capatalism just leverages that evil for it’s benefit.

Though to be honest, it is a function of cost. We don’t shut the country down over flu. That kills people. At some point there is a publicly acceptable loss of life. Presumably total economic collapse and starvation would kill more people than covid. How long that would actually take is above my pay grade.

fintail > My bird IS the word 04/09/2020 at 14:50

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For mostly the benefit of a few, just like communism. Maybe Ferris Bueller was right in disliking “isms” - they all seem to eventually turn to shit.

I suspect those preaching “get back to work” wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice themselves or anyone in their family tree for the economy. Pieces of trash like Dan Patrick or Devilspawn Falwell put on a show about this , but they’d chicken out when it came time to put up.  Sacrifice for thee, not for me.    Total economic collapse might be a bit alarmist, but maybe this will help improve the shameful American safety net, and create momentum behind medical reforms.

PartyPooper2012 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 04/09/2020 at 14:51

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Back in my shithole country, we watered plants without any sort of pipes. Trenches were dug. Sometimes by tractors. Most of the time by hands and horses. Water was diverted from rivers and fields were flooded with water until plants were watered sufficiently. It was back breaking work.

I went out to Idaho and Wyoming area few years back and saw how they do irrigation there. They have these massive gizmos that have pipes on top and wheels roll through fields. Sprinkler heads spray from above. I am not a professional farmer, but this type of irrigation might burn leaves of plants if done during hot day. Might be better off watering at night using that system.

There is currently enough shovels out there to hold us over. Of course they are shit quality and will probably break after first season.

It’s curious to see how long it will take for civilization to bounce back. It depends on existence of electricity and internet I suppose. Much of useful information exists on internet and youtube. If that source is no longer available, we might have to do some book reading and that will take longer to find, read, comprehend. 

My bird IS the word > fintail 04/09/2020 at 15:08

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It’s definetly exposing holes, like the fact that the CDC hasn’t doing a damn thing if they didnt have a plan for something like this .

I wouldn’t rag so hard on capitalism. Everything I have that I enjoy is a result. I am also a materialist POS ... Eh h. Who wants to help strangers when those strangers are probably assholes? I want to own my own time. Fuck society.

fintail > My bird IS the word 04/09/2020 at 15:20

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Puts some fun holes in the current regime too, no doubt to be helped by a son in law with no real world credentials. Almost like a stereotype of corruption and nepotism. And I won’t even get into the defunding, nor the presto-changeo statements of dear leader . This regime botched it from the start and is still playing catch-up.

Good luck with that.